Posts by Open mind

58

A Question for Underground Apostates, How Many Are There?

by Village Idiot in

when i first came to this forum i was of the belief that those of us who were still in due to family reasons were few in numbers perhaps one in a thousand in the jws.

soon i came to the realization that there were many more.

we have dozens of posters here who are mentally out but still in.

Open mind

I was a closet apostate elder for about 2.5 years until my wife finally awakened. We faded pretty rapidly within a matter of months after that.

om

14

Faders: did local JWs give you a going away party?

by Open mind in

for those who choose to fade, leaving your old congregation is often a first step.

did you switch congos while stll in "good standing" (tm)?

if so, did the local jws try to give you a going away party?

Open mind

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Since we didn't get a going away party, I think we'll count our first Lake Tahoe Apostafest a few years back as a "Welcome Home" party.

14

Faders: did local JWs give you a going away party?

by Open mind in

for those who choose to fade, leaving your old congregation is often a first step.

did you switch congos while stll in "good standing" (tm)?

if so, did the local jws try to give you a going away party?

For those who choose to fade, leaving your old congregation is often a first step. Did you switch congos while stll in "Good Standing" (tm)? If so, did the local JWs try to give you a going away party? Did you accept?

We were in the same congo for well over 10 years. I had served as an elder for most of that time. Raised our kids there. I learned TTATT about 2.5 years before my wife did. As soon as the blinders came off for her my first move was to "step aside" as an elder. A couple months later, we decided to switch congos. Since there was no obvious external reason for our move (job change, aging parents, being asked to move to help a different congo, etc.) the local JWs probably took our decision as a bit of a "screw you". Therefore, no one organized a "going away" party for us. On the one hand, it hurt a little bit, but overall, we're glad we didn't have to put on fake smiles and deal with a couple hours of nosy questions.

How about you?

om

48

American Sniper - courage or cowardice?

by Simon in

the movie american sniper is breaking box office records and of course there is some irony that a movie about a sniper is released on martin luther king day (who was shot by one).. but of course there is a world of difference between an assassin and a military sniper ... or is there?.

some are making a big stink about it and claiming that "snipers are cowards".

it seems unfair to me.

Open mind

Curtis LeMay, the American General who led the systematic carpet bombing of Japan for 14 months, said that 'if the US had lost the war, he and his fellow officers would have been tried as war criminals'. (Approximate quote.) Robert McNamara, who served as a Captain under LeMay, performed statistical analysis of the efficiency of the US bombing. He later went on to serve as Secretary of Defense throughout most of the Vietnam War. He agreed with LeMay's comment. The documentary "The Fog of War" was quite an eye opener for me.

Two take-aways that have stuck with me were:

1. The above comment about war criminals.

2. The total destruction from the two atomic bombs was substantially less destructive than the "conventional" bombs dropped in the previous 14 months. The estimates of lives lost from the atomic bombs are 129,000-246,000. The estimates of lives lost from the conventional bombing of 67 Japanese cities leading up to the end of the war are 241,000-900,000.

In addition to loss of life, the physical destruction of Japanese infrastructure of Hiroshima and Nagasaki pales in comparison to the toll taken on the rest of the country as the following chart shows:

Effect of Conventional Bombing on Japanese Cities

The table below notes the effect of conventional bombing campaigns on Japanese cities.

City Name	% Area Destroyed
Yokohama	58.0
Tokyo	51.0
Toyama	99.0
Nagoya	40.0
Osaka	35.1
Nishinomiya	11.9
Shimonoseki	37.6
Kure	41.9
Kobe	55.7
Omuta	35.8
Wakayama	50.0
Kawasaki	36.2
Okayama	68.9
Yawata	21.2
Kagoshima	63.4
Amagasaki	18.9
Sasebo	41.4
Moji	23.3
Miyakonojo	26.5
Nobeoka	25.2
Miyazaki	26.1
Ube	20.7
Saga	44.2
Imabari	63.9
Matsuyama	64.0
Fukui	86.0
Tokushima	85.2
Sakai	48.2
Hachioji	65.0
Kumamoto	31.2
Isesaki	56.7
Takamatsu	67.5
Akashi	50.2
Fukuyama	80.9
Aomori	30.0
Okazaki	32.2
Oita	28.2
Hiratsuka	48.4
Tokuyama	48.3
Yokkaichi	33.6
Ujiyamada	41.3
Ogaki	39.5
Gifu	63.6
Shizuoka	66.1
Himeji	49.4
Fukuoka	24.1
Kochi	55.2
Shimizu	42.0
Omura	33.1
Chiba	41.0
Ichinomiya	56.3
Nara	69.3
Tsu	69.3
Kuwana	75.0
Toyohashi	61.9
Numazu	42.3
Choshi	44.2
Kofu	78.6
Utsunomiya	43.7
Mito	68.9
Sendai	21.9
Tsuruga	65.1
Nagaoka	64.9
Hitachi	72.0
Kumagaya	55.1
Hamamatsu	60.3
Maebashi	64.2

I highly recommend this brief clip from "The Fog of War".

http://www.blinkx.com/ce/EaQon511B8WrOjoLAYpxjmTQRWFRb241MTFCOFdyT2pvTEFZcHhqbVRRRWFRb241MTFCOFdyT2p?id=1760603549

Also, after watching American Sniper, I thought it was more anti-war than pro-US flag waving, although there was certainly a fair amount of that.

111

Conti Appeal Preview - Oral Argument Jan 14

by Chaserious in

with hopefully a good deal of interest here in the conti appeal tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are), i thought that on my ride home from work tonight i'd preview what to expect and what i think the key issues are for any who are interested.

i have had a busy few weeks and haven't had time to read everything, but i had some time to look at the appeal briefs during my work commute the past couple days.

it'll be interesting to see what develops out of the network news coverage of this case.

Open mind

Marking.

29

Conti Appeal Oral Arguments slated for 9 A.M., Jan. 14, 2014. Recap of Defendant Watchtower's Complaint of Errors for your info.

by AndersonsInfo in

conti appeal hearing-summary of watchtowers complaint of errors with plaintiff's reply.

the following statements were taken from the introduction of respondents brief a136641 -attorney richard simons' response for plaintiff.

defendants argue that the affirmative duty imposed by the trial court impinges on their religious freedom.

Open mind

Let's say it goes all the way to CA Supreme Court and WT loses there. Can WT then try taking it to the US Supreme Court?

Sorry if this has already been asked before.

om

13

Becoming officially inactive

by All for show in

jw
friends

i don't want to turn in my token time anymore.

it's only a few hours counting what we do with the kids.

i don't want it counted for their skewed statistics- or to just for the sake of doing it.

Open mind

By going totally inactive you do pop up a bit more on their radar as a target for shepherding, so that MAY be a reason to turn in token time.

One obscure reason in favor of going totally inactive is it starts the clock ticking towards when the elders are allowed to not pursue judicial action against you. This is particularly true if you've moved to a new area. There's not a set number of years, but in practice it's usually around 3-5 years. After that, if some JW from the area you previously lived in sees Xmas lights hanging on your home and tattles on you, the elders have no obligation to hunt you down for a JC.

If you were a particularly "high-profile" JW, (ex CO, DO, Uber-Elder, etc.) they may still come after you anyway.

om

26

Ever tried "Dry January"? Join Ms. OM & me for a 30 day liver vacation!

by Open mind in

jw
friends

there are a few things i picked up from watchtowerism that i still find value in.

(although, i could have easily picked them up elsewhere.).

one of these is the 30-day test to abstain from all booze.. .

Open mind

Xanthippe: I was a bit surprised that a didn't lose a single pound but a good idea to give your liver a rest.

I haven't lost any weight yet either.

Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't be substituting ice cream and cookies for the booze!

om

26

Ever tried "Dry January"? Join Ms. OM & me for a 30 day liver vacation!

by Open mind in

jw
friends

there are a few things i picked up from watchtowerism that i still find value in.

(although, i could have easily picked them up elsewhere.).

one of these is the 30-day test to abstain from all booze.. .

Open mind

LOL @ JakeM2012. !!

26

Ever tried "Dry January"? Join Ms. OM & me for a 30 day liver vacation!

by Open mind in

jw
friends

there are a few things i picked up from watchtowerism that i still find value in.

(although, i could have easily picked them up elsewhere.).

one of these is the 30-day test to abstain from all booze.. .

Open mind

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Hope the drinkers here realize we're not standing in judgement AT ALL. For us it's about checking our will power and also gauging the strength of this particular habit. At 2 1/2 days in, we're doing fine, but I have to admit the habit is very powerful. One thing that helps us is to have some substitutes available rather than just plain old tap water. For dinner we'll have chilled, sparkling water, perhaps with a bit of lime. In the evening, a cup of Good Earth non-caffeinated tea helps me continue the habit of sipping on something while reading or watching a movie.

Also, in the interests of complete transparency, we fully plan on boozing it up one Saturday night during January. It's the night one of our employers has an annual employee dinner and the gourmet food and world-class wines that are poured that night are just too much for us to pass up. So, we're not technically going 30 days straight. It's 30 out of 31 days.

To life!!

om